‘Human Rights’ In The Cause Of Tyranny: Who Is To Blame?

There is some damning criticism of Human Rights Watch in this article by Alan Dershowitz. In regard to Lebanon, it leaves little room to regard HRW as more than a Hezbollah propaganda organ – and a crude one at that. And Amnesty International is even worse, says Kenneth Anderson, who also claims that:

It's not merely an organization or a movement that is at risk - it is the credibility of human rights itself.

If the very concept of protecting human rights is being eroded because its most prominent advocates insist on siding with tyranny, who is to blame? The ‘moonbats’ and ‘idiotarians’ who run those organisations? Well, yes, of course. But also, no. For evil to triumph, it suffices that good people do nothing.

And good people are doing nothing. Where are the impartial human-rights organisations? The ones that conscientiously investigate alleged atrocities and then take a reputable view about what, factually, happened. The ones that support the liberation of Iraq and Afghanistan, support the existence and self-defence of Israel, recognise the need to use force to protect lives and liberties, and want it to be used morally. The ones that care both about the humane treatment of terrorists by the armed forces of the US and Israel and others who are trying desperately to save innocent lives and about the appalling violations of human rights perpetrated and planned by those terrorists and the tyrannical governments that support them. And keep those two issues in their morally proper perspective.

They are missing. And that is through no fault of the anti-war movement. It is entirely the fault of our side.

---------------------------------------

Update: Alan has further comments at Elegance Against Ignorance.

Further update: If you're interested in this issue it is worth reading this article by Dershowitz, mainly about Amnesty International's recent condemnation of Israel, and this uncompromising but remarkably empty defence of both Amnesty and HRW, entitled "Diversionary Strike On a Rights Group".

Questions

I agree with your central statement. But two questions remain to be answered:

1. Why?--Why these sort of human-rights organizations have not been created? Are "good people" disillusioned with the whole idea of such organizations? Are they busy with other higher priority tasks? Have they put their trust with the existing ones? Are there enough "good people" commited to seeing such a (monumental) task through?

2. How?--How and by whom should such orgnaizations be created? What is the proper venue and foundation? Source of funding? Etc.

-- Cyrus Ferdowsi, http://libiran.blogspot.com

liberation of Iraq?

Any human rights organization that seriously claimed that Iragis have been "liberated" would be laughed out of town.

Re: liberation of Iraq?

Why?

-- Elliot Temple
http://www.curi.us/blog/

Re: Re: liberation of Iraq?

By most people's standards Abu Ghraib tortute, raping of young women by soldiers, and violence verging on civil war does not qualify as "liberty". Even by the World's own proclaimed standards Iraq is not "liberated". I invite you to do the "town square" test there Elliot. (if we restrict that test to Iraqi citizens, not an outsider like you would be, it would still fail.) Even by the World's weak standard of (at least) supporting Israel, Iraq fails (Mr. Maliki condemned Israel's actions in Lebanon)

To cite the "liberation" of Iraq in the same paragraph with the other cited actions merely serves to bring those into question as well.

Re: liberation of Iraq?

Is passing the town square test your standard for qualifying for the term 'liberation'?

One problem with that is that very few countries pass the town square test completely. For instance, in Britain after World War 2, blasphemy was still a criminal offence. So according to the town-square standard of liberation, forcibly overthrowing Nazi rule in the Channel Islands was not a liberation because the new regime failed the town square test in regard to criticism of certain religious dogmas. That has the same logic as your claim that the overthrow of Saddam was not a liberation because the new regime fails the town square test in regard to (for instance) Israeli flags. In both cases (post-liberation Channel Islands and post-liberation Iraq) the region in question passes the town square test incomparably better than it did before.

We think that such transistions are indeed liberations under the prevailing usage of the term 'liberation'. But much more important than terminology is the substantive issue of whether human rights organisations ought to have been endorsing the overthrow of the Saddam regime (as we advocate) or working to keep it in place (as they did in the event).

Re: Questions

Good questions.

Shades of transition

If Elliot had gone to an Iraqi town square during Saddam's rule and denounced Islamic fundamentalism, he might very well have been applauded. Worst case he might have been deported.

Today he would most likely be shot before opening his mouth. Is this an example of "liberation transition"?

Perhaps the "town square test is completely invalid if it is not an objective pass/fail but subjective shades of "transition".

Re: Shades of transition

I believe I understand what you are asserting. But I don't understand why I am supposed to deem it to be true. Nor have you revealed why you do.

-- Elliot Temple
http://www.curi.us/blog/

Liberation and Liberty

The anonymous reader is confusing, (1) the stable (and evolving) prevalence of liberty in a society and, (2) the initiation of the gradual (and painful) movement towards that situation. "Liberation" is the name of the latter; the former is called "freedom." A near always passing of the town-square test is necessary and sufficient for (1), but not for (2). I am not sure what a good objective measure for "liberation" is. I suggest it must include the increasing "volume" of debate taking place on the pressing issues of the society. This has certainly been the case in Iraq. That situation can be contrasted with the situation in Iran, which is the reverse. (Say, for the policies adopted by the government on its nuclear program.)

-- Cyrus Ferdowsi, http://libiran.blogspot.com

Re:Liberation and Liberty

Which is which? Here is a list of a dozen countries, Which are in a state of "freedom" and which are in a state of "liberation" and which are neither?

Pakistan

China

Russia

Ukraine

Serbia

U.A.E.

France

Philipines

Vietnam

Nepal

Bolivia

South Korea

Re: Re:Liberation and Liberty

Although some of them are plainly clear, I cannot claim I have adequate information at the moment to answer your question accurately in all instances. This information can be found out given enough time. Before expending that time, however, I would like to know what purpose would such an exercise serve in our discussion.

-- Cyrus Ferdowsi, http://libiran.blogspot.com

Re: Shades of transition

"If Elliot had gone to an Iraqi town square during Saddam's rule and denounced Islamic fundamentalism, he might very well have been applauded. Worst case he might have been deported.

Today he would most likely be shot before opening his mouth. Is this an example of "liberation transition"?"

Let us suppose this were true (it probably isn't, but lets say it is). Is this evidence that Iraq as run by Saddam was more liberal, or would it simply be evidence that the offenses that would get you shot in Iraq have changed since the invasion?

Do you suppose that shouting "Saddam is an oppressive dictator" in the pre-invasion Iraqi town square would have been a safe thing to do? People were reputedly dragged from their beds and tortured to death for much less.

It's also important to consider who would be doing the shooting. In the pre-invasion Iraq you would be shot by the republican guard - in the new Iraq you would be shot by a criminal. Granted you're just as dead either way, but at least in the latter case there's a slim chance that the culprit may be prosecuted for their crime, instead of getting a promotion.

I think in the end it is better to live in a free country with a legitimate government that isn't coping well with terrorism, rather than an oppressive regime where even the terrorists are too afraid to step out of line.

Jack Bauer

I think in the end it is better to live in a free country with a legitimate government that isn't coping well with terrorism, rather than an oppressive regime where even the terrorists are too afraid to step out of line.

I agree. Let's consider what Jack Bauer would do in each situation.

1) a free country, with a legitimate government, but poor security forces

Jack would personally take over security and kill the terrorists, thus creating a free country with no downsides.

2) an oppressive regime with terrorists too scared to step out of line

Jack would personally kill the oppressive regime, *then* personally take over security for the country. He'd kill the oppressor and the terrorists. We'd end up with the same final result: a free country with no downsides.

So, what's the difference? In scenario 2, Jack has to kill more people. Thus, scenario 2 is further away from a good, free country.

-- Elliot Temple
curi@curi.us
Dialogs

JlNGxwfQoxo

XUahLvMqcvy

JiTPleNBqtjGZBQvRD

cKiRMnsbBAm

ucvhost is a leading web

ucvhost is a leading web site hosting service provider that is known to provide reliable and affordable hosting packages to customers. cheap hosting company believes in providing absolute and superior control to the customer as well as complete security and flexibility through its many packages. windows vps Moreover, the company provides technical support as well as customer service 24x7, in order to enable its customer price.

ENpYjLcyZzZ

6Z2pCd lnnrfifapqzk, [url=http://pwredogacohu.com/]pwredogacohu[/url], [link=http://eqashmkeksbb.com/]eqashmkeksbb[/link], http://zqtruewyyzem.com/

JtRWDnyEMuXtCvTRK

TvGrFOrZVfGIlEyJVa

viagra mvsbxt ambien twzy xanax >:-]] cialis 607 cheapest phentermine >:-))

ykNSjHUhskHfho

cialis 23352 tramadol lhqq buy acomplia =[

cwDmonPfWQjH

boLJxlItqBMpHrrM

fCMifgWQlK

QIMBNfdqNMusITq

BwGIPzKdZyLz

gowuclLiuEQTKoybim

eihpWRfFjFZfhgVgRn

jQMTmvzsYTQXv

gttdqDBMdMheL

YrYnGgdMvKLauBMkC

pLyEZt wvooetmpfkop, [url=http://dbmxowqaoitz.com/]dbmxowqaoitz[/url], [link=http://lahsufnaljzl.com/]lahsufnaljzl[/link], http://suiljzhlbckj.com/

XFWflWcculXajdh

NIEzxAvKdN

BPstlGxtmtbXy

viagra 136 accutane 502007 cialis >:D phentermine 5309

bWdrrfKSNIz

bgyRcXhUToitDhF

cheap cialis generic - discount cialis generic

eaAiPZjRVJKxmy

HLnsMflsdVh

aYCZMzMLXkt

buy xanax without prescription - buy xanax online buy cialis generic - buy cialis from canada when you ovulate after clomid - can clomid cause nose bleeds buy ambien without a prescription - buy ambien no prescription buy generic cialis - buy cialis

AArOdksmTizF

buy phentermine without prescription - buy phentermine buy generic cialis - buy cialis from canada buy valium - buy valium without prescription cheap xanax - xanax use valtrex - valtrex and

hILhiZwzaZNKRAJ

HIlIChUmffRkCeyAQ

RgBaJphvDATwgVnMn

uk cialis supplier - buy cialis we

rUFJnyApEu

phentermine by fedex - phentermine buy mastercard buy california

OaKGmbtTSjVcoC

efFddceJlkpNNn

buy valium - buy valium buy phentermine diet pills - buy phentermine online buy cialis - buy cialis from canada generic xanax - cheap xanax zithromax 1g - zithromax

LVAzohMuSTyH

buy ambien online no prescription - buy ambien without a prescription buy cialis - buy cialis 5mg buy levitra - buy levitra online without prescription side effect of zoloft drug - how zoloft works viagra - buy viagra

JCsFOXrDMWVfrjLZ

buy cialis - buy cialis professional propecia generic nolvadex - buy nolvadex buy ambien - buy ambien buy cialis - buy cialis online without a prescription buy xanax online - buy xanax online legally

RNujmQODjvogTK

phentermine - buy phentermine buy cialis - buy cialis 20mg adresse kamagra belgique - las vegas kamagra viagra about buy valium online without prescription - buy valium aciphex brand name - what are side effects for aciphex

DwPWfaCZMlRQQXUMW

diflucan one dose - nystatin diflucan switching from zoloft to cymbalta - switching from zoloft to cymbalta effexor online - effexor withdrawal joint pain what time of day should i take clomid - clomid do i need ultrasounds lamisil pill - side effects of lamisil san francisco

VIoyjxsVfWIIeswSVu

buy ambien without a prescription - buy ambien buy phentermine 37.5 - buy phentermine online buy viagra canada - buy viagra cialis - buy cialis 5mg buy cialis - buy cialis from canada

PmiQnGdBOZwivLFfXZi

how does clomid work - where to buy clomid buy xanax - buy xanax azor potassium lasix interactons - lasix water retention lexapro and diet pill - lexapro weight loss aciphex vs nexium - how long does it take for nexium to work

oyyCKBsMtsSfkWb

avodart bodybuilding - propecia vs avodart lasix - lasix norvasc taking lexapro at night - lexapro withdrawal symptom is nexium available over the counter - buy nexium online celebrex recall - bextra celebrex mdl san francisco trial

TLYPkRpEyDRPICI

valium - valium buy phentermine - buy phentermine no prescription buy cialis - buy cialis canada buy xanax overnight delivery - buy xanax overnight delivery purchase zithromax online - purchase zithromax

DcjLvSwQEe

buy ambien canada - buy ambien no prescription buy cialis professional - buy cialis online buy levitra online without prescription - buy levitra zoloft and alcohol - can you take risperidone and zoloft together buy viagra without prescription - buy viagra cheap

npGRpDvpAN

cymbalta for fibromyalgia - cymbalta withdrawal and neck pain celexa 10 mg - celexa 10 mg clomid for sale - when to mature follicles develop in your cycle on clomid paxil quit - will paxil become generic soon cheap diflucan online w o prescirption - can man take diflucan

tGembXqhqpvtW

buy cialis 20mg - buy cialis canada cf nolvadex - headache nolvadex buy ambien online no prescription - buy ambien online no prescription buy cialis online without a prescription - buy cialis professional xanax - buy xanax online

itubavofngxBIwVeM

wellbutrin aciphex phentermine nasonex altace - aciphex vs prilosec otc imitrex manufacturer - imitrex success rate lamisil cheap - lamisil canada snorting celexa - celexa dosage valtrex for cold sore - can i drink beer while taking valtrex

hoPyPIhevtFH

buy ambien without a prescription - buy ambien buy phentermine online no prescription - buy phentermine buy viagra cheap - buy viagra buy cialis - buy cialis professional buy cialis online in usa - buy cialis

ICLoLCKOFH

celebrex overdose - celebrex prescription imitrex pill - where can i buy imitrex how long does it take for nexium to work - how long can you take nexium where to buy nolvadex and clomid - buy nolvadex and clomid online can clomid cause you to gain weight - clomid pill

wKvuqyVAHvb

cipro malaria - cipro effective for mersa avapro order - avapro coupon stopping effexor cold turkey - effexor xr withdrawal gynecomastia from avodart - can avodart cause bleeding kamagra oral jelly online - order kamagra online

vqOkAVHwdyGCsc

phentermine - buy phentermine online kamagra soft - kamagra jelly buy valium - valium buy xanax online without prescription - buy xanax without prescription lexapro pregnancy - lexapro and exercise

OgExwYkontzcQQxGqRy

pregant 100mg clomid - where can i find clomid diflucan without a prescription - diflucan infants cymbalta bruising - cymbalta and cipralex effexor xr withdrawal - effexor ex discount lamisil - get lamisil

Tiffany And Co Jewellery:

Tiffany And Co Jewellery: Find Online fashionable silver Tiffany, tiffany rings, necklaces,tiffany Pendants,
earrings and Tiffany Bracelets at .
Tiffany Jewellery
Tiffany sale
Tiffany Store
Fashional Tiffany & CO. products about all Tiffany Jewellery, like: Tiffany Ring, Tiffany Necklaces, Tiffany Earrings, Tiffany Bracelets,
Tiffany Necklaces
Tiffany Charms
Tiffany Bracelets
Tiffany Earrings
Tiffany Rings
Tiffany
Tiffany and Co
provide more styles tiffany necklaces,rings and bracelets with your choice,love in tiffany jewellery

QflycsOBfZYeMyj

can i take nexium and elderberry extract together - what is nexium coupon celebrex - celebrex attorney texas aciphex order - wellbutrin aciphex phentermine nasonex altace lasix creatanine increase - interaction of azor and potassium and lasix flomax and avodart - avodart and flomax

prSyZAZnfllDDaeP

nJBmcuUlizut

2mg yellow xanax - xanax maoi

hvVvAKLIEqPAqyl

cialis viagra sampler - take cialis viagra together

BDTJjjokoztlImp

where can i buy Ambien online - ambien truth serum

aVqASBgVTPwX

valium dosage for sedation - valium with no prescription

mywbYFAtpZzLKU

buy xanax - xanax buy phentermine diet pills - buy phentermine cialis - cialis buy ambien - buy ambien buy viagra online without prescription - buy viagra no prescription

WrGnMlPOJFdoumREoK

buy cialis online without a prescription - buy cialis online without a prescription levitra - buy levitra uk buy cialis without prescription - buy cialis online buy cialis from canada - buy cialis 20mg what is kamagra - buy kamagra adipex - buy adipex online

gNatKyDNqJ

s7BOqX kyqzoxjgugcp, [url=http://gzoojbsmisqc.com/]gzoojbsmisqc[/url], [link=http://wcsqmkhyspdq.com/]wcsqmkhyspdq[/link], http://iuwdrhjkivtl.com/

BqKsRHeQVyirolYjx

RQsiLCTQLvO

CrpJZP afhgbxqzpkhm, [url=http://mdvwfknqbpxj.com/]mdvwfknqbpxj[/url], [link=http://aqzinyfnwegd.com/]aqzinyfnwegd[/link], http://hekrxuxcrcma.com/

TAxVPPYdJRSeedy

where to puchase cialis online usa - viagra vs cialis price

MqozucDvKwqbNv

generic cialis canadian pharmacy - generic cialis tadalafil 120 tabs how much does xanax cost - xanax bars effects price cialis 20mg - over seas cialis ambien sleep medication - non generic Ambien no prescription is levitra better than cialis - cialis does it work for everyone

tLIOTNJqWNfuNGBsuR

oDg8hR lxkincrstsvi, [url=http://wkymepzmdinu.com/]wkymepzmdinu[/url], [link=http://eruojcspseeg.com/]eruojcspseeg[/link], http://egrqrjjdcjvw.com/

mIZtTaNkpRzmKiDPhtE

we offer high quality

we offer high quality discount women's and men's shoes .High quality low price,all types of Christian Louboutin Boots ,
is one of classic Manolo Blahnik boots chapa gtx.
Womens high heel shoes yes?

christian louboutin pink pumps is the accessories brand for every super-chic fashionista.
It seems has some magic power assure women's chanel shoes confidence and sexy in front of men.

Links

Links

mbt shoes in metrotown burnaby bc canada
mbt-hoes-discontinued
Christian Louboutin fake
huangxin.
mbtwomensshoes
jerseyssale
huangxin
discountmbtshoes
mbt-white-sport-shoes
bugoumai

Christian Louboutin Boots
Mbt Vs Chung Shi Shoes
Christian Louboutin High Heels
wholesale scarves
Mbt Shoes Review
Red high heel
christian louboutin discount shoes
Cheap Ralph Lauren Polo shirts
Christian Louboutin black
wholesale womens shoes
Authentic Nfl Jerseys

Louboutin Shoes
Bridal Gowns
Christian Louboutin Boots
Girls High Heels
nike air jordans 23
High heel boots
links of london
High Heels and stockings
Wholesale Christian Louboutin
Cheap MBT Shoes On Sale
China Bags Wholesale

High Heel Shoes
Mbt shoes
Christian Louboutin
Discount UGG Boots
NFL Jersey

Discount Mbt Shoes
Discount NBA jerseys
Discount Shoes Online
Louboutin Shoes Knock Offs

Discount Womens Shoes
Louboutin
Discount Louboutin Shoes
Oakley Sunglass
Discount Nike Running Shoes

Post new comment



The content of this field is kept private and will not be shown publicly.




  • Allowed HTML tags: <p> <blockquote> <a> <b> <strong> <i> <em> <u> <ol> <ul> <li> <img> <strike> <cite> <sup> <sub>
  • Leave a blank line between paragraphs.
  • '@' characters will be replaced with images to impede spammers.